From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:27:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h08GKMB18900; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:22 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E36173465; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:20 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 519) id 73571173465; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CDB617F405; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:20:20 +0100 (CET) From: Alexandre Dulaunoy X-X-Sender: adulau-conos@gilmore.ael.be To: Thomas Roessler Cc: ISOC Luxembourg , discuss@isoc.lu, honeylux@honeylux.org.lu Subject: Re: [Honeylux] Re: First Honeylux Contest (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20030108160059.GL16902@coruscant.does-not-exist.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 538 On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Thomas Roessler wrote: > On 2002-12-24 13:10:19 +0100, ISOC Luxembourg wrote: > > > The capture and the tools are available : > > > > http://www.honeylux.org.lu/project/honeyluxR1/ > > Has anyone succeeded in getting through to that web site? > Yes. What is the issue ? Thanks. adulau -- Alexandre Dulaunoy -- http://www.foo.be/ 3B12 DCC2 82FA 2931 2F5B 709A 09E2 CD49 44E6 CBCD --- AD993-6BONE "People who fight may lose.People who do not fight have already lost." Bertolt Brecht From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0UJ8s600807 for discuss-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:54 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.183]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0UJ8rm00804 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:53 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18eK3R-0004UB-00 for discuss@isoc.lu; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:53 +0100 Received: from [217.0.178.139] (helo=coruscant.does-not-exist.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18eK3F-0001my-00 for discuss@isoc.lu; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:52 +0100 Received: by coruscant.does-not-exist.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4F0FE2ED13; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:32 +0100 From: Thomas Roessler To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: Needed: At-Large Delegates to ICANN's Nominating Committee Message-ID: <20030130190832.GB29193@coruscant.does-not-exist.org> Mail-Followup-To: discuss@isoc.lu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4363 Marina del Rey, California, USA (28 January 2003) The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is convening a Nominating Committee to select a majority of the voting members of ICANN's new Board of Directors, as well as individuals to serve in other key positions. ICANN is a private sector, non-profit corporation with technical management responsibilities for the Internet's domain name and address system. ICANN's Interim At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC), which is responsible for considering and providing advice on the activities of ICANN as they relate to the interests of individual Internet users (the "At-Large" community), will select 5 delegates to the Nominating Committee. The ALAC is calling for volunteers to serve as its delegates to the Nominating Committee. Individuals interested in being considered for appointment by the ALAC to the Nominating Committee are asked to contact the ALAC via e-mail to before 7 February 2003 (please include in the e-mail your name, country, profession, and e-mail address; write "Nominating Committee" in the subject line; and attach a resume or biography). Suggestions of individuals who may be interested in serving are also strongly encouraged. Nominating Committee delegates will select a group of accomplished Board members who display diversity in geography, culture, skills, experience, and perspective, and who understand ICANN's mission and are committed to its success. The Board is responsible for ensuring that ICANN carries out its mission of coordinating, and ensuring the stability and security of, the global Internet's systems of unique identifiers (see for additional information). The ALAC seeks Nominating Committee delegates who are: 1. Accomplished persons of integrity, objectivity, and intelligence, with reputations for sound judgment and open minds, and with experience and competence with collegial large group decision-making; 2. Persons with wide contacts, broad experience in the Internet community, and a commitment to the success of ICANN; 3. Persons whom the selecting body is confident will consult widely and accept input in carrying out their responsibilities; 4. Persons who are neutral and objective, without any fixed personal commitments to particular individuals, organizations, or commercial objectives in carrying out their Nominating Committee responsibilities; 5. Persons with an understanding of ICANN's mission and the potential impact of ICANN's activities on the broader Internet community who are willing to serve as volunteers, without compensation other than the reimbursement of certain expenses; and 6. Persons who are able to work and communicate in written and spoken English. Additionally, delegates the ALAC selects will be geographically diverse, reflecting the global interests of the At-Large community. One individual will be selected from each of ICANN's five geographic regions Africa, Asia-Pacific, Europe, Latin America/Caribbean, and North America. The Nominating Committee's members will serve one-year terms (with terms ending at the ICANN annual meeting, usually in October or November). The Committee's immediate task is to select 8 members of the ICANN Board, 5 members of the ALAC, and 3 members of the GNSO Council, which is responsible for developing and recommending to the ICANN Board policies relating to generic top-level domains. The Committee is expected to conduct its business online, or through teleconferences, and require a reasonably manageable time commitment. Additional information on the Nominating Committee can be found at . The Committee will be chaired by Linda Wilson, ICANN Board member and former president of Radcliffe College. Information on the ALAC and its members is available at . Information on ICANN can be found at . Please contact with questions relating to this announcement (include "Nominating Committee" in the subject line). In addition to English, inquiries and recommendations are welcome in the following languages: French, Spanish, Italian, German, Japanese, Chinese, and Russian. --=20 Thomas Roessler From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0UJ8s600807 for discuss-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:54 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.183]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0UJ8rm00804 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:53 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18eK3R-0004UB-00 for discuss@isoc.lu; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:53 +0100 Received: from [217.0.178.139] (helo=coruscant.does-not-exist.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18eK3F-0001my-00 for discuss@isoc.lu; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:52 +0100 Received: by coruscant.does-not-exist.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4F0FE2ED13; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:08:32 +0100 From: Thomas Roessler To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: Needed: At-Large Delegates to ICANN's Nominating Committee Message-ID: <20030130190832.GB29193@coruscant.does-not-exist.org> Mail-Followup-To: discuss@isoc.lu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 4360 Marina del Rey, California, USA (28 January 2003) The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is convening a Nominating Committee to select a majority of the voting members of ICANN's new Board of Directors, as well as individuals to serve in other key positions. ICANN is a private sector, non-profit corporation with technical management responsibilities for the Internet's domain name and address system. ICANN's Interim At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC), which is responsible for considering and providing advice on the activities of ICANN as they relate to the interests of individual Internet users (the "At-Large" community), will select 5 delegates to the Nominating Committee. The ALAC is calling for volunteers to serve as its delegates to the Nominating Committee. Individuals interested in being considered for appointment by the ALAC to the Nominating Committee are asked to contact the ALAC via e-mail to before 7 February 2003 (please include in the e-mail your name, country, profession, and e-mail address; write "Nominating Committee" in the subject line; and attach a resume or biography). Suggestions of individuals who may be interested in serving are also strongly encouraged. Nominating Committee delegates will select a group of accomplished Board members who display diversity in geography, culture, skills, experience, and perspective, and who understand ICANN's mission and are committed to its success. The Board is responsible for ensuring that ICANN carries out its mission of coordinating, and ensuring the stability and security of, the global Internet's systems of unique identifiers (see for additional information). The ALAC seeks Nominating Committee delegates who are: 1. Accomplished persons of integrity, objectivity, and intelligence, with reputations for sound judgment and open minds, and with experience and competence with collegial large group decision-making; 2. Persons with wide contacts, broad experience in the Internet community, and a commitment to the success of ICANN; 3. Persons whom the selecting body is confident will consult widely and accept input in carrying out their responsibilities; 4. Persons who are neutral and objective, without any fixed personal commitments to particular individuals, organizations, or commercial objectives in carrying out their Nominating Committee responsibilities; 5. Persons with an understanding of ICANN's mission and the potential impact of ICANN's activities on the broader Internet community who are willing to serve as volunteers, without compensation other than the reimbursement of certain expenses; and 6. Persons who are able to work and communicate in written and spoken English. Additionally, delegates the ALAC selects will be geographically diverse, reflecting the global interests of the At-Large community. One individual will be selected from each of ICANN's five geographic regions Africa, Asia-Pacific, Europe, Latin America/Caribbean, and North America. The Nominating Committee's members will serve one-year terms (with terms ending at the ICANN annual meeting, usually in October or November). The Committee's immediate task is to select 8 members of the ICANN Board, 5 members of the ALAC, and 3 members of the GNSO Council, which is responsible for developing and recommending to the ICANN Board policies relating to generic top-level domains. The Committee is expected to conduct its business online, or through teleconferences, and require a reasonably manageable time commitment. Additional information on the Nominating Committee can be found at . The Committee will be chaired by Linda Wilson, ICANN Board member and former president of Radcliffe College. Information on the ALAC and its members is available at . Information on ICANN can be found at . Please contact with questions relating to this announcement (include "Nominating Committee" in the subject line). In addition to English, inquiries and recommendations are welcome in the following languages: French, Spanish, Italian, German, Japanese, Chinese, and Russian. -- Thomas Roessler From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TNa4732044 for discuss-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:04 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TNa3O32041 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:03 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF6617347F for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5FA17347F for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: IPv6, enfin ? From: Tycho Fruru To: discuss@isoc.lu In-Reply-To: <20030129194717.GA9963@tofu.home.mamane.lu> References: <20030129194717.GA9963@tofu.home.mamane.lu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-10) Date: 30 Jan 2003 00:36:01 +0100 Message-Id: <1043883361.2545.13.camel@bozo.fruru.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk id h0TNa4O32042 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2042 On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 20:47, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 03:24:48PM +0100, tycho@fruru.com wrote: [snip] > > Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web > > SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa s=E9curit=E9. >=20 > Au sens de protection contre les intrusions de la machine sur laquelle > le serveur tourne, oui, "=E9videmment". >=20 > La s=E9curit=E9 de laquelle je parlais =E9tait plus du genre =E9coute d= e la > transmission entre le serveur et un client: =C7a ne regarde personne > quel page sur le serveur je regarde, et (si ce n'est pas public) le > contenu des pages. L=E0, TLS aide. Si l'=E9crasante majorit=E9 des site= s web > acceptait des connexions TLS, il serait beaucoup, beaucoup plus > difficile d'=E9tablir un profil global de ce que lis, de ce que j'envoi= e > aux sites web o=F9 il y a quelque chose =E0 envoyer (vote, article sur > forum de discussion, ...). IPSec et TLS peuvent aider pour la confidentialit=E9 des donn=E9es en transit (pour autant que les cl=E9s de session sont bien g=E9n=E9r=E9es e= t les cl=E9s priv=E9es le restent :-) Pour ce qui concerne la protection contre le "profil global", je pense qu'il faudra plutot penser =E0 d'autres techniques (comme les anonymizing= proxies, FreeNet et autres) pour assurer une moindre tracabilit=E9. C'est= en effet un sujet assez int=E9ressant. TLS ne couvre qu'une partie de ce probl=E8me : Il peut =EAtre int=E9ressa= nt de savoir que tu fr=E9quentes au moins une fois par jour un site sp=E9cifiqu= e, meme sans vraiment savoir quels pages tu regardes (en TLS)... > > Dans un sens il devient m=EAme plus difficile de monitorer sa s=E9cur= it=E9 > > : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilis=E9s dans les NIDS ne > > verront plus les attaques. >=20 > C'est plus difficile de le monitorer de l'ext=E9rieur. On pourrait > n=E9anmoins imaginer que le serveur coop=E8re avec le NDIS en lui envoy= ant Il y a en effet des projets qui font cela. [correct description of SSL-aware NIDS snipped] Cheers, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TFpEX14984 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:14 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TFpDx14979 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:13 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EA2173465 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 504) id 67C2E173465; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6699517F405 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) From: tycho@fruru.com X-X-Sender: fpmip@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Swedish-Chef: Bork-Bork-Bork X-Plan: World Domination X-Message-Flag: Conostix. Making security work. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 748 On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: >=20 > I would encourage you to read the response to the Cybersecurity > call for comments after my meeting with Richard Clarke in Oct 2002: >=20 > http://www.nav6tf.org/slides/repository.html >=20 > NAV6TF Response to U.S. National Security Final V2.0 > Jim Bound, Latif Ladid, and Michael P. Brig [pdf] (posted 12/02/02) I read that as well as the IPv6 Security and Privacy presentation (with the huge blue yelling on yellow background - not to mention the infamous "The IPv4 Address Space is Melting ! So, is Identity and therefore Security !" soundbite on slide 14) which I think is a must-read for all=20 participants here. Let's close this discussion (about what was it in fact ?) Cheers, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TF35G07396 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:05 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TF35K07393 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:05 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TF33025906 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:03 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:17 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2997 I would encourage you to read the response to the Cybersecurity call for comments after my meeting with Richard Clarke in Oct 2002: http://www.nav6tf.org/slides/repository.html NAV6TF Response to U.S. National Security Final V2.0 Jim Bound, Latif Ladid, and Michael P. Brig [pdf] (posted 12/02/02) Cheers Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of Latif LADID Sent: 29 January 2003 15:47 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? I meant the end-2-end model. Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of tycho@fruru.com Sent: 29 January 2003 15:25 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > Lionel, > > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switchi= ng > technology. I fail to see the link with packet switching technology. Please clarify.= > On the money! > > Cheers > Latif > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of > Lionel Elie Mamane > Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 > To: discuss@isoc.lu > Subject: Re: [discuss] IPv6, enfin ? > > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > > > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publi=E9 deux documents > > fort int=E9ressants: > > Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit > commentaire. > > > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html > > A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. > > Ben, il y a au moins un cas pr=E9cis o=F9 le tr=E8s faible co=FBt d'une= > adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure s=E9curit=E9 que sur le r=E9seau IPv4:= Les > serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de > multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne diff=E9rents (virtual Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa s=E9curit=E9. Dans un sens il devient m=EAme plus= difficile de monitorer sa s=E9curit=E9 : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilis=E9s dans les NIDS ne verront plus les attaques. > IPv4 has run out of addresses > > Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the > total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for > multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the > remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be > allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear > that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. ces 1.5 milliard d'adresses font souvent partie d'un netblock qui ne sera= jamais coup=E9 en plusieurs morceaux (pour limiter la taille des tables d= e routage des routeurs en BGP). Donc effectivement, je crois qu'une grande= partie de ces adresses seront pas utilisables (au moins, par les gens qui= en auront le plus besoin). Cordialement, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEkf004348 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:41 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEke304344 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:40 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TEkd016890 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:39 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:53 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2482 I meant the end-2-end model. Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of tycho@fruru.com Sent: 29 January 2003 15:25 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > Lionel, > > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switchi= ng > technology. I fail to see the link with packet switching technology. Please clarify.= > On the money! > > Cheers > Latif > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of > Lionel Elie Mamane > Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 > To: discuss@isoc.lu > Subject: Re: [discuss] IPv6, enfin ? > > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > > > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publi=E9 deux documents > > fort int=E9ressants: > > Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit > commentaire. > > > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html > > A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. > > Ben, il y a au moins un cas pr=E9cis o=F9 le tr=E8s faible co=FBt d'une= > adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure s=E9curit=E9 que sur le r=E9seau IPv4:= Les > serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de > multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne diff=E9rents (virtual Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa s=E9curit=E9. Dans un sens il devient m=EAme plus= difficile de monitorer sa s=E9curit=E9 : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilis=E9s dans les NIDS ne verront plus les attaques. > IPv4 has run out of addresses > > Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the > total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for > multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the > remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be > allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear > that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. ces 1.5 milliard d'adresses font souvent partie d'un netblock qui ne sera= jamais coup=E9 en plusieurs morceaux (pour limiter la taille des tables d= e routage des routeurs en BGP). Donc effectivement, je crois qu'une grande= partie de ces adresses seront pas utilisables (au moins, par les gens qui= en auront le plus besoin). Cordialement, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEip703964 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:44:51 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEipB03961 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:44:51 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TEio015855 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:44:50 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:45:03 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 1167 If you 're interested in security issues, have a look at this http://www.research.att.com/~smb/ and=20 draft-bellovin-useipsec-00.txt=20 and then we can talk next time we meet. Cheers Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of Alexandre Dulaunoy Sent: 29 January 2003 15:23 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: >=20 > Lionel, >=20 > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switchi= ng > technology. >=20 Could you explain the relation between the comment of Lionel about SSL/TLS inner operation and "packet switching"[1] ? As the layers are not directly related ;-) Just for my curiosity,=20 adulau [1] For me, packet switching is how packets are individually routed across a network without existing established communication path. But maybe, there are other definitions.=20 --=20 Alexandre Dulaunoy -- http://www.foo.be/ 3B12 DCC2 82FA 2931 2F5B 709A 09E2 CD49 44E6 CBCD --- AD993-6BONE "People who fight may lose.People who do not fight have already lost." Bertolt Brecht From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEOaZ01059 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:36 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEOZp01055 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:36 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3519D17347C for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:49 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 504) id E660E17347C; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id E524C17F405 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:48 +0100 (CET) From: tycho@fruru.com X-X-Sender: fpmip@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Swedish-Chef: Bork-Bork-Bork X-Plan: World Domination X-Message-Flag: Conostix. Making security work. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2292 On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: >=20 > Lionel, >=20 > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switchi= ng > technology. I fail to see the link with packet switching technology. Please clarify.= > On the money! >=20 > Cheers > Latif >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of > Lionel Elie Mamane > Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 > To: discuss@isoc.lu > Subject: Re: [discuss] IPv6, enfin ? >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: >=20 > > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publi=E9 deux doc= uments > > fort int=E9ressants: >=20 > Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit > commentaire. >=20 > > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html >=20 > A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. >=20 > Ben, il y a au moins un cas pr=E9cis o=F9 le tr=E8s faible co=FBt d'une= > adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure s=E9curit=E9 que sur le r=E9seau IPv4:= Les > serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de > multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne diff=E9rents (virtual Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa s=E9curit=E9. Dans un sens il devient m=EAme plus= difficile de monitorer sa s=E9curit=E9 : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilis=E9s dans les NIDS ne verront plus les attaques. > IPv4 has run out of addresses >=20 > Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the > total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for > multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the > remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be > allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear > that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. ces 1.5 milliard d'adresses font souvent partie d'un netblock qui ne sera= =20 jamais coup=E9 en plusieurs morceaux (pour limiter la taille des tables d= e=20 routage des routeurs en BGP). Donc effectivement, je crois qu'une grande= =20 partie de ces adresses seront pas utilisables (au moins, par les gens qui= =20 en auront le plus besoin). Cordialement, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEMjB00799 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:45 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEMjB00795 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:45 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C040517347D for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 519) id 726DB17347C; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C17517F405 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) From: Alexandre Dulaunoy X-X-Sender: adulau-conos@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 767 On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: >=20 > Lionel, >=20 > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switchi= ng > technology. >=20 Could you explain the relation between the comment of Lionel about SSL/TLS inner operation and "packet switching"[1] ? As the layers are not directly related ;-) Just for my curiosity,=20 adulau [1] For me, packet switching is how packets are individually routed across a network without existing established communication path. But maybe, there are other definitions.=20 --=20 Alexandre Dulaunoy -- http://www.foo.be/ 3B12 DCC2 82FA 2931 2F5B 709A 09E2 CD49 44E6 CBCD --- AD993-6BONE "People who fight may lose.People who do not fight have already lost." Bertolt Brecht From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TE84n31207 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:04 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TE84o31204 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:04 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TE83025790 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:03 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:16 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20030129135423.GA5784@tofu.home.mamane.lu> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2439 Lionel, Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switching= technology. On the money! Cheers Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of Lionel Elie Mamane Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: Re: IPv6, enfin ? On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publi=E9 deux docum= ents > fort int=E9ressants: Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit commentaire. > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. Ben, il y a au moins un cas pr=E9cis o=F9 le tr=E8s faible co=FBt d'une adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure s=E9curit=E9 que sur le r=E9seau IPv4: L= es serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne diff=E9rents (virtual hosting). Cette pratique est malheureusement incompatible avec TLS/SSL. Dans le monde IPv4, il est difficile d'obtenir une foultitude d'adresses IP diff=E9rentes pour le m=EAme serveur, et donc la plupart de= s sites ne sont pas disponibles en HTTP-over-TLS: =C7a consomme une adresse IP. Ceci, =E0 mon avis, changera avec un large d=E9ploiement d'IPv6: Il serait ridicule de la part d'un colocation hosting provider de refuser de donner quelques _douzaines_ d'adresses IP =E0 une machine. Une adresse IP <-> un domaine pourra alors rester vrai, et TLS pourra rapidement =EAtre utilis=E9 sur quasi tous les sites web. IPv4 has run out of addresses Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. Ha ha. "Current policies" traitent les adresses IPv4 comme un bien pr=E9cieux =E0 =E9conomiser. Elles emp=EAchent tout un spectre d'applicat= ions qui "consommeraient" trop d'adresses IP (comme HTTP-over-TLS pour tout site web). =C0 suivre sa ligne de r=E9flexion, on a qu'=E0 ne plus assign= er du tout d'adresses IP: Avec cette "policy", le pool actuel durera plus longtemps que le cr=E9tac=E9. -- Lionel From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0R99Ed08553 for discuss-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Received: from ISOCLUWebmail (inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk [212.69.196.31]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0R99EC08550 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Message-Id: <200301270909.h0R99EC08550@inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk> Received: from client 158.167.36.11 for ISOC Luxembourg Webmail client; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 From: Patrick Vande Walle To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: IPv6, enfin ? X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: ISOC.LU Webmail 2.5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MSMail-Priority: Medium Importance: Medium Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 502 Chers amis, Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publi=E9 deux documen= ts fort int=E9ressants: un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html et la r=E9ponse du Forum IPv6 : http://www.isoc.org/pubs/isp/ipv6response.shtml Nous aurons s=FBrement l'occasion d'en reparler. Cordialement, -- Patrick Vande Walle Internet Society Luxembourg ASBL Technoport Schlassgoart B.P. 144 L-4002 Esch-sur-Alzette Tel: +352/26.53.29.52 Fax: +352/26.53.29.51 http://www.isoc.lu From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TNa4732044 for discuss-outgoing; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:04 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TNa3O32041 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:03 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF6617347F for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5FA17347F for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:36:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: IPv6, enfin ? From: Tycho Fruru To: discuss@isoc.lu In-Reply-To: <20030129194717.GA9963@tofu.home.mamane.lu> References: <20030129194717.GA9963@tofu.home.mamane.lu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-10) Date: 30 Jan 2003 00:36:01 +0100 Message-Id: <1043883361.2545.13.camel@bozo.fruru.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk id h0TNa4O32042 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 1941 On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 20:47, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 03:24:48PM +0100, tycho@fruru.com wrote: [snip] > > Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web > > SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa sécurité. > > Au sens de protection contre les intrusions de la machine sur laquelle > le serveur tourne, oui, "évidemment". > > La sécurité de laquelle je parlais était plus du genre écoute de la > transmission entre le serveur et un client: Ça ne regarde personne > quel page sur le serveur je regarde, et (si ce n'est pas public) le > contenu des pages. Là, TLS aide. Si l'écrasante majorité des sites web > acceptait des connexions TLS, il serait beaucoup, beaucoup plus > difficile d'établir un profil global de ce que lis, de ce que j'envoie > aux sites web où il y a quelque chose à envoyer (vote, article sur > forum de discussion, ...). IPSec et TLS peuvent aider pour la confidentialité des données en transit (pour autant que les clés de session sont bien générées et les clés privées le restent :-) Pour ce qui concerne la protection contre le "profil global", je pense qu'il faudra plutot penser à d'autres techniques (comme les anonymizing proxies, FreeNet et autres) pour assurer une moindre tracabilité. C'est en effet un sujet assez intéressant. TLS ne couvre qu'une partie de ce problème : Il peut être intéressant de savoir que tu fréquentes au moins une fois par jour un site spécifique, meme sans vraiment savoir quels pages tu regardes (en TLS)... > > Dans un sens il devient même plus difficile de monitorer sa sécurité > > : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilisés dans les NIDS ne > > verront plus les attaques. > > C'est plus difficile de le monitorer de l'extérieur. On pourrait > néanmoins imaginer que le serveur coopère avec le NDIS en lui envoyant Il y a en effet des projets qui font cela. [correct description of SSL-aware NIDS snipped] Cheers, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TFpEX14984 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:14 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TFpDx14979 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:13 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EA2173465 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 504) id 67C2E173465; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6699517F405 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:51:26 +0100 (CET) From: tycho@fruru.com X-X-Sender: fpmip@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Swedish-Chef: Bork-Bork-Bork X-Plan: World Domination X-Message-Flag: Conostix. Making security work. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 739 On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > I would encourage you to read the response to the Cybersecurity > call for comments after my meeting with Richard Clarke in Oct 2002: > > http://www.nav6tf.org/slides/repository.html > > NAV6TF Response to U.S. National Security Final V2.0 > Jim Bound, Latif Ladid, and Michael P. Brig [pdf] (posted 12/02/02) I read that as well as the IPv6 Security and Privacy presentation (with the huge blue yelling on yellow background - not to mention the infamous "The IPv4 Address Space is Melting ! So, is Identity and therefore Security !" soundbite on slide 14) which I think is a must-read for all participants here. Let's close this discussion (about what was it in fact ?) Cheers, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TF35G07396 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:05 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TF35K07393 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:05 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TF33025906 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:03 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:03:17 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2944 I would encourage you to read the response to the Cybersecurity call for comments after my meeting with Richard Clarke in Oct 2002: http://www.nav6tf.org/slides/repository.html NAV6TF Response to U.S. National Security Final V2.0 Jim Bound, Latif Ladid, and Michael P. Brig [pdf] (posted 12/02/02) Cheers Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of Latif LADID Sent: 29 January 2003 15:47 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? I meant the end-2-end model. Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of tycho@fruru.com Sent: 29 January 2003 15:25 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > Lionel, > > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switching > technology. I fail to see the link with packet switching technology. Please clarify. > On the money! > > Cheers > Latif > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of > Lionel Elie Mamane > Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 > To: discuss@isoc.lu > Subject: Re: [discuss] IPv6, enfin ? > > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > > > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publié deux documents > > fort intéressants: > > Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit > commentaire. > > > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html > > A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. > > Ben, il y a au moins un cas précis où le très faible coût d'une > adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure sécurité que sur le réseau IPv4: Les > serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de > multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne différents (virtual Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa sécurité. Dans un sens il devient même plus difficile de monitorer sa sécurité : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilisés dans les NIDS ne verront plus les attaques. > IPv4 has run out of addresses > > Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the > total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for > multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the > remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be > allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear > that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. ces 1.5 milliard d'adresses font souvent partie d'un netblock qui ne sera jamais coupé en plusieurs morceaux (pour limiter la taille des tables de routage des routeurs en BGP). Donc effectivement, je crois qu'une grande partie de ces adresses seront pas utilisables (au moins, par les gens qui en auront le plus besoin). Cordialement, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEkf004348 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:41 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEke304344 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:40 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TEkd016890 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:39 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:46:53 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2429 I meant the end-2-end model. Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of tycho@fruru.com Sent: 29 January 2003 15:25 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > Lionel, > > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switching > technology. I fail to see the link with packet switching technology. Please clarify. > On the money! > > Cheers > Latif > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of > Lionel Elie Mamane > Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 > To: discuss@isoc.lu > Subject: Re: [discuss] IPv6, enfin ? > > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > > > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publié deux documents > > fort intéressants: > > Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit > commentaire. > > > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html > > A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. > > Ben, il y a au moins un cas précis où le très faible coût d'une > adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure sécurité que sur le réseau IPv4: Les > serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de > multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne différents (virtual Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa sécurité. Dans un sens il devient même plus difficile de monitorer sa sécurité : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilisés dans les NIDS ne verront plus les attaques. > IPv4 has run out of addresses > > Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the > total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for > multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the > remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be > allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear > that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. ces 1.5 milliard d'adresses font souvent partie d'un netblock qui ne sera jamais coupé en plusieurs morceaux (pour limiter la taille des tables de routage des routeurs en BGP). Donc effectivement, je crois qu'une grande partie de ces adresses seront pas utilisables (au moins, par les gens qui en auront le plus besoin). Cordialement, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEip703964 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:44:51 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEipB03961 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:44:51 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TEio015855 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:44:50 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:45:03 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 1148 If you 're interested in security issues, have a look at this http://www.research.att.com/~smb/ and draft-bellovin-useipsec-00.txt and then we can talk next time we meet. Cheers Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of Alexandre Dulaunoy Sent: 29 January 2003 15:23 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > Lionel, > > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switching > technology. > Could you explain the relation between the comment of Lionel about SSL/TLS inner operation and "packet switching"[1] ? As the layers are not directly related ;-) Just for my curiosity, adulau [1] For me, packet switching is how packets are individually routed across a network without existing established communication path. But maybe, there are other definitions. -- Alexandre Dulaunoy -- http://www.foo.be/ 3B12 DCC2 82FA 2931 2F5B 709A 09E2 CD49 44E6 CBCD --- AD993-6BONE "People who fight may lose.People who do not fight have already lost." Bertolt Brecht From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEOaZ01059 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:36 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEOZp01055 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:36 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3519D17347C for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:49 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 504) id E660E17347C; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id E524C17F405 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:24:48 +0100 (CET) From: tycho@fruru.com X-X-Sender: fpmip@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Swedish-Chef: Bork-Bork-Bork X-Plan: World Domination X-Message-Flag: Conostix. Making security work. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2205 On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > Lionel, > > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switching > technology. I fail to see the link with packet switching technology. Please clarify. > On the money! > > Cheers > Latif > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of > Lionel Elie Mamane > Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 > To: discuss@isoc.lu > Subject: Re: [discuss] IPv6, enfin ? > > > On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > > > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publié deux documents > > fort intéressants: > > Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit > commentaire. > > > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html > > A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. > > Ben, il y a au moins un cas précis où le très faible coût d'une > adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure sécurité que sur le réseau IPv4: Les > serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de > multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne différents (virtual Il faut bien se rendre compte que le fait d'avoir un serveur web SSL/TLS ne garantit en rien sa sécurité. Dans un sens il devient même plus difficile de monitorer sa sécurité : beaucoup d'approches "packet sniffing" utilisés dans les NIDS ne verront plus les attaques. > IPv4 has run out of addresses > > Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the > total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for > multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the > remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be > allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear > that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. ces 1.5 milliard d'adresses font souvent partie d'un netblock qui ne sera jamais coupé en plusieurs morceaux (pour limiter la taille des tables de routage des routeurs en BGP). Donc effectivement, je crois qu'une grande partie de ces adresses seront pas utilisables (au moins, par les gens qui en auront le plus besoin). Cordialement, Tycho From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TEMjB00799 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:45 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TEMjB00795 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:45 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C040517347D for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 519) id 726DB17347C; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C17517F405 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (CET) From: Alexandre Dulaunoy X-X-Sender: adulau-conos@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 752 On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Latif LADID wrote: > > Lionel, > > Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switching > technology. > Could you explain the relation between the comment of Lionel about SSL/TLS inner operation and "packet switching"[1] ? As the layers are not directly related ;-) Just for my curiosity, adulau [1] For me, packet switching is how packets are individually routed across a network without existing established communication path. But maybe, there are other definitions. -- Alexandre Dulaunoy -- http://www.foo.be/ 3B12 DCC2 82FA 2931 2F5B 709A 09E2 CD49 44E6 CBCD --- AD993-6BONE "People who fight may lose.People who do not fight have already lost." Bertolt Brecht From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0TE84n31207 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:04 +0100 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net [194.7.1.6]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0TE84o31204 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:04 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust249.tnt1.lux1.lux.da.uu.net [194.7.196.249]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h0TE83025790 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:03 +0100 (MET) From: "Latif LADID" To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: RE: IPv6, enfin ? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:08:16 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20030129135423.GA5784@tofu.home.mamane.lu> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 2372 Lionel, Your comment is not a "small" comment but the essence of packet switching technology. On the money! Cheers Latif -----Original Message----- From: owner-discuss@isoc.lu [mailto:owner-discuss@isoc.lu]On Behalf Of Lionel Elie Mamane Sent: 29 January 2003 14:54 To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: Re: IPv6, enfin ? On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:09:14AM +0100, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publié deux documents > fort intéressants: Merci pour les liens. J'en profite pour glisser mon petit commentaire. > un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html A common claim is that IPv6 is more "secure" than IPv4. Ben, il y a au moins un cas précis où le très faible coût d'une adresse IPv6 donne une meilleure sécurité que sur le réseau IPv4: Les serveurs Web. Il est commun qu'une machine unique desserve de multiples sites web de taille petite ou moyenne différents (virtual hosting). Cette pratique est malheureusement incompatible avec TLS/SSL. Dans le monde IPv4, il est difficile d'obtenir une foultitude d'adresses IP différentes pour le même serveur, et donc la plupart des sites ne sont pas disponibles en HTTP-over-TLS: Ça consomme une adresse IP. Ceci, à mon avis, changera avec un large déploiement d'IPv6: Il serait ridicule de la part d'un colocation hosting provider de refuser de donner quelques _douzaines_ d'adresses IP à une machine. Une adresse IP <-> un domaine pourra alors rester vrai, et TLS pourra rapidement être utilisé sur quasi tous les sites web. IPv4 has run out of addresses Again, this is in the category of myth rather than reality. Of the total IPv4 space, some 6% is reserved and another 6% is used for multicast. 41% of the space has already been allocated, and the remaining 37% (or some 1.5 billion addresses) is yet to be allocated. With a continuation of current policies it would appear that IPv4 address space will be available for many years yet. Ha ha. "Current policies" traitent les adresses IPv4 comme un bien précieux à économiser. Elles empêchent tout un spectre d'applications qui "consommeraient" trop d'adresses IP (comme HTTP-over-TLS pour tout site web). À suivre sa ligne de réflexion, on a qu'à ne plus assigner du tout d'adresses IP: Avec cette "policy", le pool actuel durera plus longtemps que le crétacé. -- Lionel From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:28:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0R99Ed08553 for discuss-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Received: from ISOCLUWebmail (inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk [212.69.196.31]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0R99EC08550 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Message-Id: <200301270909.h0R99EC08550@inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk> Received: from client 158.167.36.11 for ISOC Luxembourg Webmail client; Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:14 +0100 From: Patrick Vande Walle To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: IPv6, enfin ? X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: ISOC.LU Webmail 2.5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MSMail-Priority: Medium Importance: Medium Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 491 Chers amis, Pour jeter un peu d'huile sur le feu IPv6, l'ISOC a publié deux documents fort intéressants: un ISP sceptique : http://ispcolumn.isoc.org/2003-01/Waiting.html et la réponse du Forum IPv6 : http://www.isoc.org/pubs/isp/ipv6response.shtml Nous aurons sûrement l'occasion d'en reparler. Cordialement, -- Patrick Vande Walle Internet Society Luxembourg ASBL Technoport Schlassgoart B.P. 144 L-4002 Esch-sur-Alzette Tel: +352/26.53.29.52 Fax: +352/26.53.29.51 http://www.isoc.lu From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h08GCao17738 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:12:36 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h08GCZg17733; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:12:35 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WIoj-0002ZN-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:12:33 +0100 Received: from [217.0.178.172] (helo=coruscant.does-not-exist.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WIoi-0003SR-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:12:33 +0100 Received: by coruscant.does-not-exist.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3FB672ED13; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:01:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:01:00 +0100 From: Thomas Roessler To: ISOC Luxembourg Cc: discuss@isoc.lu, honeylux@honeylux.org.lu Subject: Re: First Honeylux Contest (fwd) Message-ID: <20030108160059.GL16902@coruscant.does-not-exist.org> Mail-Followup-To: ISOC Luxembourg , discuss@isoc.lu, honeylux@honeylux.org.lu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 292 On 2002-12-24 13:10:19 +0100, ISOC Luxembourg wrote: > The capture and the tools are available : >=20 > http://www.honeylux.org.lu/project/honeyluxR1/=20 Has anyone succeeded in getting through to that web site? --=20 Thomas Roessler From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h08GCao17738 for discuss-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:12:36 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h08GCZg17733; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:12:35 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WIoj-0002ZN-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:12:33 +0100 Received: from [217.0.178.172] (helo=coruscant.does-not-exist.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WIoi-0003SR-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:12:33 +0100 Received: by coruscant.does-not-exist.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3FB672ED13; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:01:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:01:00 +0100 From: Thomas Roessler To: ISOC Luxembourg Cc: discuss@isoc.lu, honeylux@honeylux.org.lu Subject: Re: First Honeylux Contest (fwd) Message-ID: <20030108160059.GL16902@coruscant.does-not-exist.org> Mail-Followup-To: ISOC Luxembourg , discuss@isoc.lu, honeylux@honeylux.org.lu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 285 On 2002-12-24 13:10:19 +0100, ISOC Luxembourg wrote: > The capture and the tools are available : > > http://www.honeylux.org.lu/project/honeyluxR1/ Has anyone succeeded in getting through to that web site? -- Thomas Roessler From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h08GCZg17733; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:12:35 +0100 Received: from [212.227.126.162] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WIoj-0002ZN-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:12:33 +0100 Received: from [217.0.178.172] (helo=coruscant.does-not-exist.org) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18WIoi-0003SR-00; Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:12:33 +0100 Received: by coruscant.does-not-exist.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3FB672ED13; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:01:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:01:00 +0100 From: Thomas Roessler To: ISOC Luxembourg Cc: discuss@isoc.lu, honeylux@honeylux.org.lu Subject: Re: First Honeylux Contest (fwd) Message-ID: <20030108160059.GL16902@coruscant.does-not-exist.org> Mail-Followup-To: ISOC Luxembourg , discuss@isoc.lu, honeylux@honeylux.org.lu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 285 On 2002-12-24 13:10:19 +0100, ISOC Luxembourg wrote: > The capture and the tools are available : > > http://www.honeylux.org.lu/project/honeyluxR1/ Has anyone succeeded in getting through to that web site? -- Thomas Roessler From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SEmwB31293 for discuss-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:48:58 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SEmvc31290 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:48:57 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2AF173465 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 519) id 8869A173465; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873ED17F405 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) From: Alexandre Dulaunoy X-X-Sender: adulau-conos@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: Re: e-votation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 1068 On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 Patrice.Husson@cec.eu.int wrote: >=20 >=20 > la Suisse pl=E9biscite le vote en ligne. [ source: Le Temps ] > Des citoyens de la commune d'Ani=E8res, dans le canton de Gen=E8ve=20 > (sud-ouest), ont pu voter par internet, une > premi=E8re en Suisse et une des premi=E8res exp=E9riences de ce type da= ns le=20 > monde. Pr=E8s de deux citoyens d'Ani=E8res > sur trois ont vot=E9 au lieu de un Ani=E9rois sur deux en temps normal.= =2E. > http://www.afnet.fr/portail/news/05_e-trans/277_etrans >=20 > a quand une exp=E9rience au Luxembourg, l'ann=E9e est propice! >=20 Quelques r=E9f=E9rences sur les questions du vote =E9lectronique : http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/FreeVote http://www.notablesoftware.com/RMstatement.html adulau PS : La suisse vote tout le temps compar=E9 au Luxembourg ou =E0 l= a Belgique.=20 --=20 Alexandre Dulaunoy -- http://www.foo.be/ 3B12 DCC2 82FA 2931 2F5B 709A 09E2 CD49 44E6 CBCD --- AD993-6BONE "People who fight may lose.People who do not fight have already lost." Bertolt Brecht From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SEf8c30245 for discuss-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:41:08 +0100 Received: from ex3lujmoims01.cec.eu.int (ex3lujmoims01.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.54]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SEf7p30242 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:41:07 +0100 Received: by ex3lujmoims01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:28:37 +0100 Message-ID: From: Patrice.Husson@cec.eu.int To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: e-votation Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:28:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk id h0SEf7p30243 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 503 la Suisse pl=E9biscite le vote en ligne. [ source: Le Temps ] Des citoyens de la commune d'Ani=E8res, dans le canton de Gen=E8ve=20 (sud-ouest), ont pu voter par internet, une premi=E8re en Suisse et une des premi=E8res exp=E9riences de ce type dans= le=20 monde. Pr=E8s de deux citoyens d'Ani=E8res sur trois ont vot=E9 au lieu de un Ani=E9rois sur deux en temps normal...= http://www.afnet.fr/portail/news/05_e-trans/277_etrans a quand une exp=E9rience au Luxembourg, l'ann=E9e est propice! From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SEmwB31293 for discuss-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:48:58 +0100 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SEmvc31290 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:48:57 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF2AF173465 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix, from userid 519) id 8869A173465; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873ED17F405 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:49:07 +0100 (CET) From: Alexandre Dulaunoy X-X-Sender: adulau-conos@gilmore.ael.be To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: Re: e-votation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.43 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 1009 On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 Patrice.Husson@cec.eu.int wrote: > > > la Suisse plébiscite le vote en ligne. [ source: Le Temps ] > Des citoyens de la commune d'Anières, dans le canton de Genève > (sud-ouest), ont pu voter par internet, une > première en Suisse et une des premières expériences de ce type dans le > monde. Près de deux citoyens d'Anières > sur trois ont voté au lieu de un Aniérois sur deux en temps normal... > http://www.afnet.fr/portail/news/05_e-trans/277_etrans > > a quand une expérience au Luxembourg, l'année est propice! > Quelques références sur les questions du vote électronique : http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/FreeVote http://www.notablesoftware.com/RMstatement.html adulau PS : La suisse vote tout le temps comparé au Luxembourg ou à la Belgique. -- Alexandre Dulaunoy -- http://www.foo.be/ 3B12 DCC2 82FA 2931 2F5B 709A 09E2 CD49 44E6 CBCD --- AD993-6BONE "People who fight may lose.People who do not fight have already lost." Bertolt Brecht From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0SEf8c30245 for discuss-outgoing; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:41:08 +0100 Received: from ex3lujmoims01.cec.eu.int (ex3lujmoims01.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.54]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0SEf7p30242 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:41:07 +0100 Received: by ex3lujmoims01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:28:37 +0100 Message-ID: From: Patrice.Husson@cec.eu.int To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: e-votation Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:28:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk id h0SEf7p30243 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 470 la Suisse plébiscite le vote en ligne. [ source: Le Temps ] Des citoyens de la commune d'Anières, dans le canton de Genève (sud-ouest), ont pu voter par internet, une première en Suisse et une des premières expériences de ce type dans le monde. Près de deux citoyens d'Anières sur trois ont voté au lieu de un Aniérois sur deux en temps normal... http://www.afnet.fr/portail/news/05_e-trans/277_etrans a quand une expérience au Luxembourg, l'année est propice! From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OBHYU00928 for discuss-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 Received: from ISOCLUWebmail (inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk [212.69.196.31]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0OBHYf00925 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 Message-Id: <200301241117.h0OBHYf00925@inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk> Received: from client 158.167.36.11 for ISOC Luxembourg Webmail client; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 From: Patrick Vande Walle To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: EU Directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: ISOC.LU Webmail 2.5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MSMail-Priority: Medium Importance: Medium Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 1434 Some of you may remember that the proposed EU directive on the patentibil= ity computer-implemented inventions has last year created concern amongst the= European sotware developers, in particular those involved in open-source software (OSS). Several ISOC chapters were involved at that time to alert decision makers= that patentability of software would put the Internet at risk, as we know= that most of the Internet relies on OSS for its day-to-day operation. Unlike the US and Japan, Europe does grant patents on software, although = the European Patent Office has nethertheless granted patents to computer implemented inventions. The draft EU Directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions is here: http://www.europarl.eu.int/meetdocs/committees/cult/20030120/COM(02)0092e= n.pdf MEP (and former French Prime Minister) Michel Rocard has suggested some amendments to the directive. http://www.europarl.eu.int/meetdocs/committees/cult/20030120/483467en.pdf= In effect these amendments would not allow to patent software application= s. These would in any case be covered by copyright, as is any intellectual work. The amendments were voted by the Committee but still need to be approved = by the plenary of the Parliament. -- Patrick Vande Walle Internet Society Luxembourg ASBL Technoport Schlassgoart B.P. 144 L-4002 Esch-sur-Alzette Tel: +352/26.53.29.52 Fax: +352/26.53.29.51 http://www.isoc.lu From patrick@boaz.isoc.lu Sat Apr 23 16:29:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: (from admin@localhost) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h0OBHYU00928 for discuss-outgoing; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 Received: from ISOCLUWebmail (inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk [212.69.196.31]) by inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0OBHYf00925 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 Message-Id: <200301241117.h0OBHYf00925@inter-12202-001.dsvr.co.uk> Received: from client 158.167.36.11 for ISOC Luxembourg Webmail client; Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:17:34 +0100 From: Patrick Vande Walle To: discuss@isoc.lu Subject: EU Directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: ISOC.LU Webmail 2.5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MSMail-Priority: Medium Importance: Medium Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-discuss@isoc.lu Reply-To: discuss@isoc.lu Content-Length: 1415 Some of you may remember that the proposed EU directive on the patentibility computer-implemented inventions has last year created concern amongst the European sotware developers, in particular those involved in open-source software (OSS). Several ISOC chapters were involved at that time to alert decision makers that patentability of software would put the Internet at risk, as we know that most of the Internet relies on OSS for its day-to-day operation. Unlike the US and Japan, Europe does grant patents on software, although the European Patent Office has nethertheless granted patents to computer implemented inventions. The draft EU Directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions is here: http://www.europarl.eu.int/meetdocs/committees/cult/20030120/COM(02)0092en.pdf MEP (and former French Prime Minister) Michel Rocard has suggested some amendments to the directive. http://www.europarl.eu.int/meetdocs/committees/cult/20030120/483467en.pdf In effect these amendments would not allow to patent software applications. These would in any case be covered by copyright, as is any intellectual work. The amendments were voted by the Committee but still need to be approved by the plenary of the Parliament. -- Patrick Vande Walle Internet Society Luxembourg ASBL Technoport Schlassgoart B.P. 144 L-4002 Esch-sur-Alzette Tel: +352/26.53.29.52 Fax: +352/26.53.29.51 http://www.isoc.lu